Discussion:
[permaculture] Permaworld?
Keith Johnson
2004-01-22 18:23:46 UTC
Permalink
I just stumbled across a permaculture inspired online multi-level
fundraising organization called Permaworld.
<http://www.permaworld.org/members/permacultureactivist/index.shtml>

Normally the term multi-level makes me cringe. This actually sounds
intelligent.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Keith
--
Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 1209, Black Mountain, NC 28711
(828)669-6336

also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
Culture's Edge at Earthaven Ecovillage
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
http://www.earthaven.org
http://www.bioregionalcongress.org

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John Schinnerer
2004-01-24 06:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Keith,

Permaworld came round on the list in the last year or two. Check the
archives. Generated some hot conversation about "dirty" vs. "clean" money,
"ends" and "means," all that good stuff. PC Int'l has gotten some funding
from them. Looks like Sea Shepherd has now too.

I have nothing against anyone getting grants/donations from permaworld - their
choice.

I personally don't support any kind of MLM for any reason. The underlying
structure is fundamentally unsustainable, and that is counter to PC as I
understand it. YMMV.

When I first examined their site back when, they promised the would have some
actual permaculture-related materials as products "real soon now." That was
at least a year ago, maybe two, and they seem to have completely dropped even
that pretense from their site.

Meanwhile:
Their actual main "product" is spam generation and management software,
something the world clearly needs more of (NOT).

Their other main "product" is a rechargeable "ATM/debit" card. A dime goes to
their donations fund for certain card transactions you make. Card fees (what
*you* pay to use the card) are not a bargain, and are probably cheaper at your
local (or at the Permaculture!) credit union.

Most of the original "founders" have resumes heavy on MLM and sales/marketing
and even resort development, and little or nothing related to Permaculture or
anything even close. I see a few people with more Eco/PC chops have been
added since last I looked at this. Bob Ewing - care to comment?

Nothing else has changed though (except they've apparently dropped the
pretense of ever selling anything actually related to PC other than hot air).

So, two thumbs down from me...BTW if you've never personally know people
who've gotten into MLMs, well, in my experience it's a three letter word for
CULT. A good old fashioned evangelical revival tent show has nothing on their
meetings.
Post by Keith Johnson
I just stumbled across a permaculture inspired online multi-level
fundraising organization called Permaworld.
<http://www.permaworld.org/members/permacultureactivist/index.shtml>
Normally the term multi-level makes me cringe. This actually sounds
intelligent.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Keith
--
Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 1209, Black Mountain, NC 28711
(828)669-6336
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
Culture's Edge at Earthaven Ecovillage
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
http://www.earthaven.org
http://www.bioregionalcongress.org
John Schinnerer - MA, Whole Systems Design
------------------------------------------
- Eco-Living -
Design & Technology Services
People - Place - Learning - Integration
john at eco-living.net
http://eco-living.net
Graham Burnett
2004-01-24 10:57:37 UTC
Permalink
I laughed at the Permaculture car license plate holder. But found the
permaculture thong even funnier!

Cheers :) Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john at eco-living.net>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaworld?
Post by John Schinnerer
Hi Keith,
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Loren Davidson
2004-01-24 16:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Schinnerer
So, two thumbs down from me...BTW if you've never personally know people
who've gotten into MLMs, well, in my experience it's a three letter word for
CULT.
That's funny...I always heard it was Postalspeak for SCAM, etymylogically
related to "Ponzi." Linguists are also postulating a link to one or two
ancient Egyptian architectural/engineering terms...

Tongue firmly in cheek,

Loren


Loren Davidson Earth steward, healer, singer/songwriter
NEW EMAIL: loren at lorendavidson.com http://www.earthspring.org/loren/
AIM: loren334 ICQ: 65291610
I'm a musician too! http://www.lorendavidson.com
"In gentleness there is great strength." - Sun Bear
Robyn Francis
2004-01-24 13:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Schinnerer
Permaworld came round on the list in the last year or two. Check the
archives. Generated some hot conversation about "dirty" vs. "clean" money,
"ends" and "means," all that good stuff. PC Int'l has gotten some funding
from them. Looks like Sea Shepherd has now too.
Yes Pc International has been receiving donations from Permaworld for the
past couple of years which has helped the organisation through a difficult
transition period and has in turn meant Pc Int'l has been able to send
resources (journals, books, seeds etc) to numerous struggling pc projects
around the world which it otherwise would not have the funds to do.

The originator of permaworld has a genuine interest in pc from the years he
lived in Lismore Australia where PIJ used to be published. Re the pc
products, they'd have them up there if they existed - particularly
interested in electronic info products like e-books etc.
The Amazon Rainforest group have received huge amounts from permaworld -
they're on the ball with their promo and offering holiday gimics and stuff -
permaworld donors choose which organisation they want their $$ to go to.

The Pc Int'l board has checked out the legitimacy of the org, they're
operating legally and the people joining are doing so willingly and
nominating the recipient org for their donation. It's their choice to
participate and to choose their cause. I personally choose not to get
involved in such schemes but I also think it unfair to judge. PIL doesn't
grill every donor and member as to how they acquired their money, if their
job is 'clean' or 'dirty'....

robyn
Graham Burnett
2004-01-25 00:45:26 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Francis" <erda at nor.com.au>
To: "john at eco-living.net, permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaworld?
Post by Robyn Francis
The originator of permaworld has a genuine interest in pc from the years he
lived in Lismore Australia where PIJ used to be published. Re the pc
products, they'd have them up there if they existed - particularly
interested in electronic info products like e-books etc.
Hi Robyn- I must say I just clicked on the merchandising they sell, which
seemed to be things like permaculture branded baseball caps, thongs, bumper
stickers etc, which to me just seemed to be reducing permaculture to some
kind of trendy logo like a 'Slipknot' teeshirt or something... maybe you
could argue that I'm doing the same by making teeshirts with permacuture
design principles on and such like- but I'd feel better about them though if
they were providing a market for goods which genuinely do come from the
permaculture community- for a start maybe your excelent 'Songs From a Green
Guerilla' CD?

Cheers Graham


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Robyn Francis
2004-02-24 18:57:15 UTC
Permalink
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www.permaculture.com.au

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