[permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture

Discussion:

Lawrence F. London, Jr.

2011-04-06 15:08:23 UTC

From ATTRA:

The following four recipes are credited to Eliot Coleman. The first
was published in the Winter 1994 issue of NOFA-NJ Organic News, in an
article by Emily Brown-Rosen. The remaining three are adapted from
Coleman's book The New Organic Grower (see Appendix 2).

Organic potting mix

1 part sphagnum peat
1 part peat humus (short fiber)
1 part compost
1 part sharp sand (builder's)

To every 80 quarts of this add:

1 cup greensand
1 cup colloidal phosphate
1 1/2 to 2 cups crab meal, or blood meal
1/2 cup lime

Blocking mix recipe

3 buckets (standard 10-quart bucket) brown peat
1/2 cup lime (mix well)
2 buckets coarse sand or perlite
3 cups base fertilizer (blood meal, colloidal phosphate, and
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
1 bucket soil
2 buckets compost

Mix all ingredients together thoroughly. Coleman does not sterilize
potting soils; he believes that damp-off and similar seedling problems
are the result of overwatering, lack of air movement, not enough sun,
over-fertilization, and other cultural mistakes.

Blocking mix recipe for larger quantities

30 units brown peat
1/8 unit lime
20 units coarse sand or perlite
3/4 unit base fertilizer (blood meal, colloidal phosphate, and
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
10 units soil
20 units compost

Mini-block recipe

16 parts brown peat
1/4 part colloidal phosphate
1/4 part greensand
4 parts compost (well decomposed)

Note: If greensand is unavailable, leave it out. Do not substitute a
dried seaweed product in this mix.

Robyn Francis

2011-04-06 21:41:11 UTC

Permalink

Here we don't encourage the use of peat in any form as much of it is
extracted from fragile ecosystems and is a non-renewable resource. The
horticulture and nursery industries have decimated ancient boglands, moors
and other sensitive environments around the world.

We use coir or coco-peat as a substitute in our potting mixes, which is made
from the fibres of coconut husks, a renewable resource processed from a wast
product of harvesting coconuts for food.

Roby

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
The following four recipes are credited to Eliot Coleman. The first
was published in the Winter 1994 issue of NOFA-NJ Organic News, in an
article by Emily Brown-Rosen. The remaining three are adapted from
Coleman's book The New Organic Grower (see Appendix 2).
Organic potting mix
1 part sphagnum peat
1 part peat humus (short fiber)
1 part compost
1 part sharp sand (builder's)
1 cup greensand
1 cup colloidal phosphate
1 1/2 to 2 cups crab meal, or blood meal
1/2 cup lime
Blocking mix recipe
3 buckets (standard 10-quart bucket) brown peat
1/2 cup lime (mix well)
2 buckets coarse sand or perlite
3 cups base fertilizer (blood meal, colloidal phosphate, and
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
1 bucket soil
2 buckets compost
Mix all ingredients together thoroughly. Coleman does not sterilize
potting soils; he believes that damp-off and similar seedling problems
are the result of overwatering, lack of air movement, not enough sun,
over-fertilization, and other cultural mistakes.
Blocking mix recipe for larger quantities
30 units brown peat
1/8 unit lime
20 units coarse sand or perlite
3/4 unit base fertilizer (blood meal, colloidal phosphate, and
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
10 units soil
20 units compost
Mini-block recipe
16 parts brown peat
1/4 part colloidal phosphate
1/4 part greensand
4 parts compost (well decomposed)
Note: If greensand is unavailable, leave it out. Do not substitute a
dried seaweed product in this mix.
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Lawrence F. London, Jr.

2011-04-07 18:05:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robyn Francis
Here we don't encourage the use of peat in any form as much of it is
extracted from fragile ecosystems and is a non-renewable resource. The
horticulture and nursery industries have decimated ancient boglands, moors
and other sensitive environments around the world.
We use coir or coco-peat as a substitute in our potting mixes, which is made
from the fibres of coconut husks, a renewable resource processed from a wast
product of harvesting coconuts for food.

A more than acceptable substitute for peat is:

HAY
---
grasses
clovers
grassy perennial weeds

scythe it and pile it to rot then turn it at intervals
bale it: square or round, form them into windrows and leave to rot

you will be able to use it in varying stages of decomposition for:

1 nutrient-rich organic matter to add to potting and seed starting mixes
2 OM garden soil amendment

when it is decomposed enough for the strands of material to break apart
into smaller pieces it can be used in a potting mix - it will absorb and
hold considerable amounts of water, add valuable microorganisms to the
mix and decay in situ to provide plant seedling-available nutrients
- it might be advisable to add a little molasses to the mix to jump
start microbial action to further break down the hay and add still more
nutrients to the mix, this might reduce the need for nitrogenous
amandments, i.e. fish or crab meal, bloodmeal or dehydrated aged manure,
alfalfa meal or pellets could possibly be added as well.

at this stage it might possibly be used in a soil block mix but when it
has decayed further and darkened in color it definitely can

when it has completely broken down into black humus it can be mixed with
rock phosphate, quarry rock dusts, greensand and azomite and used as a
top dressing to fertilize garden beds

David Muhl

2011-04-07 17:18:38 UTC

Permalink

I too have been avoiding the use of peat moss for the same reasons Robyn has listed.

Coconut coir seems like a great alternative in that it offers most of the same benefits as peat moss (as a seed mix/soil conditioner), but is less acidic and "re-wets" easier. I have read that coir can however (depending where it is sourced) contain excess salts, and it might be wise to rinse it thoroughly after initial rehydration if you are not sure. I've also heard it can require additional decomposition, and may temporarily tie up nitrogen in your soil mix. If this is true, it might make sense to pre-mix this material into some compost (or your finished soil mix), and let it sit for a couple weeks before using.

Other things to consider are the extra expense and the carbon footprint involved in getting this material to your location. There surely aren't many coconut palms growing anywhere near where I live...that's for sure! I think we should always be experimenting with our own endemic substitutes for such products.

We don't need to create the "absolute best" seed starting medium at any expense...we just need a "reasonably good" mix that doesn't endanger the resilience and diversity of natural ecosystems, and is locally sourced.

From: Robyn Francis <robyn at permaculture.com.au>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 2:41 PM
Here we don't encourage the use of
peat in any form as much of it is
extracted from fragile ecosystems and is a non-renewable
resource. The
horticulture and nursery industries have decimated ancient
boglands, moors
and other sensitive environments around the world.
We use coir or coco-peat as a substitute in our potting
mixes, which is made
from the fibres of coconut husks, a renewable resource
processed from a wast
product of harvesting coconuts for food.
Roby
On 7/04/11 1:08 AM, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj at bellsouth.net>

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
The following four recipes are credited to Eliot

Coleman. The first

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
was published in the Winter 1994 issue of NOFA-NJ

Organic News, in an

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
article by Emily Brown-Rosen. The remaining three are

adapted from

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Coleman's book The New Organic Grower (see Appendix

2).

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Organic potting mix
? ? ? 1 part sphagnum peat
? ? ? 1 part peat humus (short fiber)
? ? ? 1 part compost
? ? ? 1 part sharp sand (builder's)
? ? ? 1 cup greensand
? ? ? 1 cup colloidal phosphate
? ? ? 1 1/2 to 2 cups crab meal, or

blood meal

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
? ? ? 1/2 cup lime
Blocking mix recipe
? ? ? 3 buckets (standard 10-quart

bucket) brown peat

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
? ? ? 1/2 cup lime (mix well)
? ? ? 2 buckets coarse sand or perlite
? ? ? 3 cups base fertilizer (blood

meal, colloidal phosphate, and

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
? ? ? 1 bucket soil
? ? ? 2 buckets compost
Mix all ingredients together thoroughly. Coleman does

not sterilize

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
potting soils; he believes that damp-off and similar

seedling problems

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
are the result of overwatering, lack of air movement,

not enough sun,

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
over-fertilization, and other cultural mistakes.
Blocking mix recipe for larger quantities
? ? ? 30 units brown peat
? ? ? 1/8 unit lime
? ? ? 20 units coarse sand or perlite
? ? ? 3/4 unit base fertilizer (blood

meal, colloidal phosphate, and

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
? ? ? 10 units soil
? ? ? 20 units compost
Mini-block recipe
? ? ? 16 parts brown peat
? ? ? 1/4 part colloidal phosphate
? ? ? 1/4 part greensand
? ? ? 4 parts compost (well decomposed)
Note: If greensand is unavailable, leave it out. Do

not substitute a

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
dried seaweed product in this mix.
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or find out more about

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
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Texas Plant and Soil Lab
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List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com,

chrys at thefutureisorganic.net
and

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
paul at richsoil.com

--
Permaculture College Australia inc
Pathways to sustainability through
Accredited Permaculture Training?
Certificates III & IV and Diploma of Permaculture
PDC and short courses
Robyn Francis
International permaculture design and
sustainability consultant, educator & facilitator
Djanbung Gardens
Permaculture Education Centre & Demonstration Farm
PO Box 379 Nimbin NSW 2480
02-6689 1755? /? 0429 147 138
www.permaculture.com.au
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Cory Brennan

2011-04-07 22:54:04 UTC

Permalink

Peat moss is horribly unsustainable! ?No reason to ever use it. ?Coconut coir is the "peat moss" of choice for sustainable gardeners, if it is practical to get it to your location. ?It's a wonderful material, but yes, you would mix it with compost. ?What else have people used? Has anybody tried pulverized and microbe soaked biochar mixed with compost? ?It does not have to be perfect to get seeds going nicely. Seeds grow in a wide variety of conditions all the time. I have been in a number of situations where I did not have perfect seed starter or even very ideal but yet got decent crops.?
Cory

--- On Thu, 4/7/11, David Muhl <dmuhl65 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: David Muhl <dmuhl65 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2011, 10:18 AM

I too have been avoiding the use of peat moss for the same reasons Robyn has listed.

Coconut coir seems like a great alternative in that it offers most of the same benefits as peat moss (as a seed mix/soil conditioner), but is less acidic and "re-wets" easier.? I have read that coir can however (depending where it is sourced) contain excess salts, and it might be wise to rinse it thoroughly after initial rehydration if you are not sure.? I've also heard it can require additional decomposition, and may temporarily tie up nitrogen in your soil mix.? If this is true, it might make sense to pre-mix this material into some compost (or your finished soil mix), and let it sit for a couple weeks before using.

Other things to consider are the extra expense and the carbon footprint involved in getting this material to your location.? There surely aren't many coconut palms growing anywhere near where I live...that's for sure!? I think we should always be experimenting with our own endemic substitutes for such products.

We don't need to create the "absolute best" seed starting medium at any expense...we just need a "reasonably good" mix that doesn't endanger the resilience and diversity of natural ecosystems, and is locally sourced.
? ?

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
The following four recipes are credited to Eliot

Coleman. The first

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
was published in the Winter 1994 issue of NOFA-NJ

Organic News, in an

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
article by Emily Brown-Rosen. The remaining three are

adapted from

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Coleman's book The New Organic Grower (see Appendix

2).

blood meal

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
? ? ? 1/2 cup lime
Blocking mix recipe
? ? ? 3 buckets (standard 10-quart

bucket) brown peat

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
? ? ? 1/2 cup lime (mix well)
? ? ? 2 buckets coarse sand or perlite
? ? ? 3 cups base fertilizer (blood

meal, colloidal phosphate, and

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
greensand mixed together in equal parts)
? ? ? 1 bucket soil
? ? ? 2 buckets compost
Mix all ingredients together thoroughly. Coleman does

not sterilize

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
potting soils; he believes that damp-off and similar

seedling problems

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
are the result of overwatering, lack of air movement,

not enough sun,

meal, colloidal phosphate, and

not substitute a

or find out more about

chrys at thefutureisorganic.net
and

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.
paul at richsoil.com

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
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permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Texas Plant and Soil Lab
http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com, chrys at thefutureisorganic.net and paul at richsoil.com

Paul Cross

2011-04-08 18:18:12 UTC

Permalink

I've often wondered why people seem to think coir is ecological. It is
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture that destroys
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As permaculturalists we have
to recognize that any outside input impacts the site from which it was
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is acceptable, or maybe it is not.
We can think we're doing good by washing our dishes in coconut oil soap
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing seedlings in coir instead
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their habitat to palm plantations
don't see it that way. We're always causing impacts.

Lawrence F. London, Jr.

2011-04-08 19:10:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul Cross
I've often wondered why people seem to think coir is ecological. It is
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture that destroys
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As permaculturalists we have
to recognize that any outside input impacts the site from which it was
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is acceptable, or maybe it is not.
We can think we're doing good by washing our dishes in coconut oil soap
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing seedlings in coir instead
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their habitat to palm plantations
don't see it that way. We're always causing impacts.

To back you up on this here's something I picked up on recently:

"The biggest problem agriculturally is that the most profitable crop
here and in Indonesia is palm trees for palm oil, the universal cooking
oil in this part of the world. Problems are that palm oil is hideously
viscous and overwhelms anything cooked in it. In addition, there is no
life form that can survive in a palm oil forest. Zero ecological balance."

Toby Hemenway

2011-04-08 20:10:33 UTC

Permalink

To further muddy the waters, sphagnum peat distributors claim that peat in Canada is forming at a much faster rate than it is being mined--obviously, they have an interest in having us believe this, but the bogs do cover thousands of square miles. So it's not very clear whether coir from industrial palm plantations or peat from ancient bogs is the better choice. Perhaps for North Americans peat has a slight edge unless you are gathering coir from Hollywood median strips. We all have to make our peace with our decisions. One bag of peat will last me a decade, but it still makes me uncomfortable.

I've done just fine using a mix of sifted sand, compost, and bark dust. Sometimes I can get a broken bag of vermiculite (high in embedded energy and with toxic dust, but it's a bag that otherwise would be tossed out), and I'll add that. The bark dust is optional, too, seeing as it's usually from clearcut logging. Sand and compost works fine. And sometimes I just use garden soil lightened with sand.

YMMV, in the end.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com

Post by Lawrence F. London, Jr.

"The biggest problem agriculturally is that the most profitable crop
here and in Indonesia is palm trees for palm oil, the universal cooking
oil in this part of the world. Problems are that palm oil is hideously
viscous and overwhelms anything cooked in it. In addition, there is no
life form that can survive in a palm oil forest. Zero ecological balance."
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Trudie Redding

2011-04-08 20:41:31 UTC

Permalink

yes, we're always causing impacts, it's good to be reminded, for instance
electric lawnmowers program rebate in the city where I live so the gasoline
or oil won't pollute the air, but making the electricity is still impacting
the environment in some way.
so is having a lawn, so is individual ownership of land, so is multiple
people each owning a lawnmower, all things are related.
--
Trudie's gmail
trrredding at gmail.com
Please use this email address for any personal messages

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cross
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:18 PM
To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture

I've often wondered why people seem to think coir is ecological. It is
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture that destroys
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As permaculturalists we have
to recognize that any outside input impacts the site from which it was
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is acceptable, or maybe it is not.
We can think we're doing good by washing our dishes in coconut oil soap
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing seedlings in coir instead
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their habitat to palm plantations
don't see it that way. We're always causing impacts.

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
about this list here:
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permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Texas Plant and Soil Lab
http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com, chrys at thefutureisorganic.net and
paul at richsoil.com

Jason Gerhardt

2011-04-08 19:46:20 UTC

Permalink

Though peat moss is an "unsustainable" product for soil mixes, it is the
most accessible resource for people to get growing. I much rather people use
a little bit of peat moss if it makes it easier and more straightforward to
learn how to produce food. Most folks in urban and suburban areas don't need
to be told to buy a hundred and one special, unique, and expensive products
just because they are "unsustainable". Driving is "unsustainable". Flying
around the world to teach permaculture is "unsustainable". Buying vegetable
seeds from thousands of miles away is "unsustainable". But we gotta start
somewhere!

I personally, love my Fox Farm Ocean Forest and wouldn't trade it for
coconut coir any day. There are plenty of other good soil mix recipes that
don't call for peat. Horse manure and stable rakings when composted in cool
temps with low moisture makes a very peat like texture for example!

I buy one bag of soil mix every two years for home garden use. I can think
of dozens of other unecologically sound habits that we all could change to
generate a much deeper impact than going cold turkey on peat moss. I guess
we all gotta draw the line in different places though.

Norris Thomlinson

2011-04-09 16:51:07 UTC

Permalink

I've used leaf mold instead of peat moss, and it seemed to work well.
My city delivered a *huge* truck load of leaves for free in the
autumn. I moved the leaves to a shady unused corner of the back yard
and let them sit for 18 months, adding urine occasionally. Requires
advance planning due to the long break-down time, but otherwise a good
solution, especially if you have free access to other people's "waste"
leaves.

Norris
Portland, OR
http://farmerscrub.blogspot.com

David Muhl

2011-04-09 19:14:33 UTC

Permalink

True...the import/export of coir around the world is (mostly) a byproduct of coconut plantations of various sizes, and it's pretty obvious that monocrop agriculture does not lend itself to biodiversity. However, for those that live in climates where coconut palms grow, it can be a renewable resource if harvested as needed at the local level for local use, and not treated as merely an export commodity. This is not currently an option for many of us, but it is for some.

For anyone that might be feeling guilty about their "commercial" coir use and orangutan habitat destruction, it should be clarified that 90% of the worlds coconut coir production occurs in India/Sri Lanka. Coir is made from coconuts, and since "Oil Palms" don't produce coconuts, people need not feel guilty about their coir use affecting orangutan habitat in Borneo and Sumatra. My understanding is that the damage in these areas is due primarily to timber and "oil palm" production (followed by rubber, cacao, coffee, cinnamon, and mining operations).

On 4/8/2011 2:18 PM, Paul Cross

Post by Paul Cross
I've often wondered why people seem to think coir is

ecological. It is

Post by Paul Cross
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture that

destroys

Post by Paul Cross
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As

permaculturalists we have

Post by Paul Cross
to recognize that any outside input impacts the site

from which it was

Post by Paul Cross
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is acceptable, or

maybe it is not.

Post by Paul Cross
We can think we're doing good by washing our dishes in

coconut oil soap

Post by Paul Cross
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing seedlings

in coir instead

Post by Paul Cross
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their habitat to

palm plantations

Post by Paul Cross
don't see it that way. We're always causing impacts.

To back you up on this here's something I picked up on
"The biggest problem agriculturally is that the most
profitable crop
here and in Indonesia is palm trees for palm oil, the
universal cooking
oil in this part of the world.? Problems are that palm
oil is hideously
viscous and overwhelms anything cooked in it.? In
addition, there is no
life form that can survive in a palm oil forest.? Zero
ecological balance."
_______________________________________________
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permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Texas Plant and Soil Lab
http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com,
chrys at thefutureisorganic.net
and paul at richsoil.com

Cory Brennan

2011-04-09 23:11:23 UTC

Permalink

I've never used peat moss or coir personally, I use straight compost and am experimenting with various things like biochar, which should have some of the same qualities as peat moss. I'd like to hear from people who do aquaponics using soil, and what combinations they use for that. ?If one did use coir, I would assume one would check sources and get it from the most sustainable source possible. The reasoning behind sustainability of coir is that it is a "waste" product in an already existing industry, unlike peat moss, which is mined from bogs.?
Leaves are pretty ubiquitous - does anyone know to what degree they hold moisture and nutrients and how broken down they need to be? ?What else could be used? I've used Spanish moss as a mulch in our area - it is all over the place, and holds moisture in the soil when used as a top mulch.
C

--- On Sat, 4/9/11, Norris Thomlinson <norristh at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Norris Thomlinson <norristh at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 9:51 AM

I've used leaf mold instead of peat moss, and it seemed to work well.
My city delivered a *huge* truck load of leaves for free in the
autumn.? I moved the leaves to a shady unused corner of the back yard
and let them sit for 18 months, adding urine occasionally.? Requires
advance planning due to the long break-down time, but otherwise a good
solution, especially if you have free access to other people's "waste"
leaves.

Norris
Portland, OR
http://farmerscrub.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
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permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about this list here:
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permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
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http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com, chrys at thefutureisorganic.net and paul at richsoil.com

wenshidi

2011-04-10 00:26:53 UTC

Permalink

Not everybody has access to coconut fibre, but you may be interested to learn that the windmill palm (Trachycarpus fortunei) will grow very well in cold climates and at high altitudes. It does very well in my own preferred locale in the Tibetan foothills where is has been used for millenia as a source of coir type fibre.
I was recently given a very interesting paper on the many uses of this plant in Chinese history by Frederick Essig, Professor Emeritus of Biology at USF. I you send me an email off list, then I would be happy to share a copy with you.

Hope that this helps

Chris

Post by Cory Brennan
From: David Muhl <dmuhl65 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 3:14 AM
True...the import/export of coir
around the world is (mostly) a byproduct of coconut
plantations of various sizes, and it's pretty obvious that
monocrop agriculture does not lend itself to
biodiversity.? However, for those that live in climates
where coconut palms grow, it can be a renewable resource if
harvested as needed at the local level for local use, and
not treated as merely an export commodity.? This is not
currently an option for many of us, but it is for some.
For anyone that might be feeling guilty about their
"commercial" coir use and orangutan habitat destruction, it
should be clarified that 90% of the worlds coconut coir
production occurs in India/Sri Lanka.? Coir is made
from coconuts, and since "Oil Palms" don't produce coconuts,
people need not feel guilty about their coir use affecting
orangutan habitat in Borneo and Sumatra.? My
understanding is that the damage in these areas is due
primarily to timber and "oil palm" production (followed by
rubber, cacao, coffee, cinnamon, and mining operations).

On 4/8/2011 2:18 PM, Paul Cross

Post by Paul Cross
I've often wondered why people seem to think coir

ecological. It is

Post by Paul Cross
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture

that

destroys

Post by Paul Cross
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As

permaculturalists we have

Post by Paul Cross
to recognize that any outside input impacts the

site

from which it was

Post by Paul Cross
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is

acceptable, or

maybe it is not.

Post by Paul Cross
We can think we're doing good by washing our

dishes in

coconut oil soap

Post by Paul Cross
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing

seedlings

in coir instead

Post by Paul Cross
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their

habitat to

palm plantations

Post by Paul Cross
don't see it that way. We're always causing

impacts.

To back you up on this here's something I picked up

"The biggest problem agriculturally is that the most
profitable crop
here and in Indonesia is palm trees for palm oil, the
universal cooking
oil in this part of the world.? Problems are that

palm

oil is hideously
viscous and overwhelms anything cooked in it.? In
addition, there is no
life form that can survive in a palm oil forest.?

Zero

ecological balance."
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chrys at thefutureisorganic.net
and paul at richsoil.com

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Amy Little

2011-04-12 00:50:54 UTC

Permalink

this is a good inquiry for a SARE grant. US farmers need high
quality, sustainable and resilient resources, such as seedling growing medium.

Post by wenshidi
Not everybody has access to coconut fibre, but you may be interested
to learn that the windmill palm (Trachycarpus fortunei) will grow
very well in cold climates and at high altitudes. It does very well
in my own preferred locale in the Tibetan foothills where is has
been used for millenia as a source of coir type fibre.
I was recently given a very interesting paper on the many uses of
this plant in Chinese history by Frederick Essig, Professor Emeritus
of Biology at USF. I you send me an email off list, then I would be
happy to share a copy with you.
Hope that this helps
Chris

Post by Cory Brennan
From: David Muhl <dmuhl65 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eliot Coleman's seed starting mixture
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 3:14 AM
True...the import/export of coir
around the world is (mostly) a byproduct of coconut
plantations of various sizes, and it's pretty obvious that
monocrop agriculture does not lend itself to
biodiversity. However, for those that live in climates
where coconut palms grow, it can be a renewable resource if
harvested as needed at the local level for local use, and
not treated as merely an export commodity. This is not
currently an option for many of us, but it is for some.
For anyone that might be feeling guilty about their
"commercial" coir use and orangutan habitat destruction, it
should be clarified that 90% of the worlds coconut coir
production occurs in India/Sri Lanka. Coir is made
from coconuts, and since "Oil Palms" don't produce coconuts,
people need not feel guilty about their coir use affecting
orangutan habitat in Borneo and Sumatra. My
understanding is that the damage in these areas is due
primarily to timber and "oil palm" production (followed by
rubber, cacao, coffee, cinnamon, and mining operations).

On 4/8/2011 2:18 PM, Paul Cross

Post by Paul Cross
I've often wondered why people seem to think coir

ecological. It is

Post by Paul Cross
produced as a byproduct of industrial agriculture

that

destroys

Post by Paul Cross
rainforests and plants monocrops of palms. As

permaculturalists we have

Post by Paul Cross
to recognize that any outside input impacts the

site

from which it was

Post by Paul Cross
taken. Maybe in our accounting that is

acceptable, or

maybe it is not.

Post by Paul Cross
We can think we're doing good by washing our

dishes in

coconut oil soap

Post by Paul Cross
instead of petrochemical detergents, growing

seedlings

in coir instead

Post by Paul Cross
of peat, but the orangutans who lost their

habitat to

palm plantations

Post by Paul Cross
don't see it that way. We're always causing

impacts.

To back you up on this here's something I picked up

"The biggest problem agriculturally is that the most
profitable crop
here and in Indonesia is palm trees for palm oil, the
universal cooking
oil in this part of the world. Problems are that

palm

oil is hideously
viscous and overwhelms anything cooked in it. In
addition, there is no
life form that can survive in a palm oil forest.

Zero

ecological balance."
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Texas Plant and Soil Lab
http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com,
chrys at thefutureisorganic.net
and paul at richsoil.com

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Texas Plant and Soil Lab
http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
List contacts: permacultureforum at gmail.com,
chrys at thefutureisorganic.net and paul at richsoil.com

Cory Brennan

2011-04-12 11:30:40 UTC

Permalink

Chris, Would be interested in getting a copy of this paper. I'm sorry, but your email address is not showing through.